[09:58:03] *keith has set the topic to: DNS Operations Meeting starts TODAY with lunch at noon CDT [13:03:20] Meeting starts in ~1 hr. Test video feeds available at http://videostream.is-net.depaul.edu/depaultv-webcast.html [13:15:11] *All* presentations now on website ! [14:00:21] Having trouble with tconf bridge - has anyone else tried/managed to get in ? [14:05:42] tap tap [14:05:43] is this thing on? [14:05:48] i hear you [14:05:49] no [14:05:51] yeah., but the voice bridge is no dice [14:05:51] pong [14:06:01] voice bridge is not working, according to keith [14:06:06] I can attempt to transcribe to jabber if that seems useful [14:06:35] keith is speaking, first item on agenda, oarc slides [14:06:40] Failed to get a SDP description from URL "rtsp://videostream.is-net.depaul.edu/webcast.sdp": connect() failed: Connection refused [14:06:41] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Mitchell-OARC-status.pdf [14:07:25] anyone getting video? [14:08:27] no [14:09:06] video stream doesn't work for me with vlc on a mac [14:09:10] in case that's useful to know [14:09:52] any filtering that may be in the way? [14:09:56] But Joe, you're in the room--just look at the front and not at your Mac! [14:10:18] heh [14:10:27] it was just in the name of science :-) [14:11:13] works fine when you launch the "Click Here To Launch Webcast" link, at least video, can't tell about audio [14:11:36] the link connect to another address than the page says [14:12:11] but i'm not getting any data [14:12:31] working on it [14:12:33] urls at http://videostream.is-net.depaul.edu/depaultv-webcast.html give 404 to quicktime [14:12:56] okay... I kept having DNS lies sent to me. I think that, until you login, you get lies in DNS. Naturally, those lies are cached! [14:13:09] I'm getting a picture.. [14:13:18] mplayer gets refused on those urls and an empty file on the link :) [14:13:27] http://videostream.is-net.depaul.edu/depaultv-webcast-window.html [14:16:28] there doesn't happen to be an audio stream does there? :) [14:16:45] nope, only quicktime [14:17:14] or you could skype me, and I'll relay :-) [14:17:53] heh [14:23:10] Have prodded Barry about voice bridge [14:23:14] Steve Conte presenting on L-root during the root server DoS in Feb. http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Conte-LRoot-6Feb.pdf [14:24:52] Has anyone tried to get into voice bridge: +1 866 .432.9903 rm 111367968 ? [14:25:06] it said "meeting ended" 10 minutes ago[14:25:30] video guy here says: [14:25:35] I'm seeing it all clear looks and sounds great Have 4 on all together ( 3 from dpu and on from 38.99.21.xx) All recv streams with 0%pkt loss [14:25:39] # end [14:25:53] Anyone having problems with something not a Mac? [14:26:17] nope (win/xp working fine though audio level is low) [14:26:23] still. "the meeting has ended" [14:26:28] and icann is planning on dropping anycast instances overseas. [14:26:39] (since I was bad and didn't use a mic for that q) [14:28:02] they're going to work on the webcast in the break. [14:29:15] Okay, we'll give Barry 10 mins and go for an alternate (non-tollfree) conf bridge if we don't hear [14:29:35] well, non-tollfree for PSTN access, but free for SIP/INOC-DBA [14:30:20] "I heard 9 out of 13 root servers were attacked."[14:31:48] chinese whispers in the press.[14:35:51] John is sticking pretty close to his slides, have not heard him say anything not in the preso [14:36:17] webcast is being recorded, BTW [14:43:39] lars: re low amount from .cn, saw ramp-up against the I. beijing node, but it stopped rather quickly, possible that .cn gov reacted to it. [14:47:12] keith trying an alternative conference bridge [14:48:14] success. [14:48:42] I have a new tconf bridge - +1 866-398-2885 p 318562 [14:48:48] keith: we're not getting any PA sound from the centre questions mic.. not sure if that's intentional or not, but if there's someone around to look at it, that would be great. [14:49:03] I think we are, but you need to speak directly into it [14:49:08] if you are tall and swedish it doesn't work :-) [14:49:12] Big thanks to Matt @vsign for tconf bridge ! [14:49:12] heh [14:49:30] joao says the mic is switched on.[14:49:39] i'm told the URLs for video/audio are "fixed" - someone want to refresh the page and retry? [14:49:52] The audio guy fiddled with the mic a bit there. I think it is just highly directional. [14:50:16] joao tapped on it and we heard nothing in the room -- if it's going into the PA, it's turned way down. [14:50:17] centre mic is powered and not muted [14:50:22] i had already tried the 'new' url (it was in the popup), but i'm not getting anything (both with linux/mplayer and vista/quicktime) [14:51:08] Duanne Wessels and the "Day in the Life" project 2007 [14:51:14] anyone getting new tconf feed ? [14:51:23] it connects but there doesn't seem to be any actual data sent[14:51:28] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Wessels-DITL-results.pdf [14:52:37] did you try this rtsp://wopr.is-net.depaul.edu/webcast.sdp or the slower one?[14:55:01] both [14:55:28] have asked DePaul webcast guys if they can join in here to help [14:55:52] and also to increase gain on centre mike [14:56:15] maybe also send IP addrs to keith or myself, traceroutes, whatever you can[14:58:27] anyone getting the tconf ? [14:58:51] fyi... we're looking at going here tonight, they have a decent roof-top, but if anyone is ducking out early it might be good to head over and grab a couple tables, they don't have any reservations and aren't taking any so we can take over the entire roof, they suggested get here at 3:00 pm if possible[14:58:52] http://www.planet99.com/chicago/restaurants/16599.html [14:59:35] I'm told that people may be having probs with video because they're seeing http:// instead of rtsp:// coming to it [14:59:36] that will be hard if we're finishing at 5. :) [15:00:14] watch webcast from rooftop :-? [15:00:23] we probably could get wireless from there [15:01:16] leave the presenters in the room, everyone else goes upstairs for food? ;)[15:01:53] menu ? [15:02:14] Green sheet on table at front [15:02:30] it's reasonable for the price, they got beer [15:02:38] mmm, beer [15:03:04] you haven't even had coffee yet - pay attention ! [15:03:52] <-- vixie crony! [15:04:28] today's Chicago Trib has a photo of most of the Vixie cronys, err ISC software engineering staff at IETF [15:04:39] "bind company" conspirators? [15:04:43] We sat still the longest. [15:04:50] STOP DEFAMING ME [15:05:03] no one is going to pay attention to duane [15:05:22] SCIENTIFIC FRAUD! [15:05:28] jtk: of course not, he has icky data [15:05:36] Duane's wondering why we're all giggling at his presentation [15:05:53] b-a. [15:06:31] I not as whacked as I think you am. [15:07:07] RIR and ASN as proxies for rough geographical location....more interesting to look at with more anycast instances included....[15:08:00] if you look at K, it mostly serves the region of the RIR running it. [15:08:05] can we charge those clients more? [15:08:59] any questions for Duane ? [15:09:08] is he a spammer or just a vixie crony? [15:09:29] is centre audio mike any better ? [15:09:31] joao: have done patch for tcpdump that runs on time interval. [15:09:53] people need to speak more directly into the mike [15:09:55] for it to work [15:10:11] They need a less directional mic I think. [15:10:20] or just more mikes [15:10:21] olaf: any graphs done on eg edns options. [15:10:22] You have to smell someone else's breath to make it actually work. [15:10:26] Hey, that is spelled as phlegmming [15:10:52] that is spelled as T H A T[15:11:18] stop lying to the non-native-english participants [15:11:45] Stop masquerading as my dog, please. [15:12:06] marco: graphics are good, small suggestion, if oddities in pcap files, please use empty value rather than 0 value.[15:12:19] barking ! [15:13:12] Duane's eyes went very wide. [15:13:20] joe abley: going to extend it from 'a day' to 'a week' or longer? [15:13:42] the second time will be easier. [15:13:52] and more researchers will show up with more resources... [15:15:07] actually this is the second DITL [15:15:22] the past one was last year, so we are still learning how to do it better [15:15:28] suz, do you mean this one? http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-pod-pix,1,4514127.photogallery?coll=chi_home_promo&index=13 [15:15:33] ... but we are getting closer ... [15:15:54] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Losher-DNSCAP.pdf [15:19:49] is remote video still a problem?[15:25:45] regexes work on expanded names, not just whats in the packet.[15:25:50] Duane explains what is NCAP [15:25:50] marco: mcap, what is it? [15:25:55] ncap even. [15:27:04] ncap == tcpdump without physical interface information. [15:27:33] (and other things useful to dns analysis, but not the rest)[15:28:09] joao could get up and explain ncap maybe. [15:28:21] duane explained it [15:28:25] at least, briefly [15:28:32] or duane of courswe [15:28:48] I sort of summarized what Duane said, but in text form. [15:29:39] Is there any way to 'pump up the volume' on the Quicktime broadcast?[15:30:31] null: the questions mic is really super-directional, it seems... we can't hear it in the room either. or are you also having problems hearing the presenter? [15:31:03] The overall gain could be pumped up a bit and it would help, IMHO, in addition to the questioner audio. [15:31:04] ;> [15:31:05] Thanks! [15:31:05] peter koch with dnsop update. [15:32:32] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Koch-DNSOP-report.pdf [15:35:29] they're supposedly pumping up the vol a bit, lemme know if it helps [15:36:30] danke [15:37:29] jtk reminds Peter that not everyone knows what's AS112, flagging error 1918->1912 :)[15:39:21] Duane: question occurred to me late... any plans to include TLDs in the next DITL? [15:40:06] We tried to get TLDs to partcipate last tine, but got no interest - would really like them to next time [15:40:09] we would love that. we made a half-hearted attempt to get some cctlds for 2007, but didn't get any [15:40:27] ah. I don't recall seeing an invite for it. i'll pay closer attention next time [15:40:46] it went out on dns-ops, but during the holidays... [15:40:58] wessels: ask the NCC whether data from ns-tld.ripe.net can be made available. [15:41:02] Perhaps send them the cool analysis report printed on glossy paper, and suggest that their logo would look awesome when thus printed and distributed? [15:41:14] want query dumps from .aq? :-) [15:41:23] those can be arranged :-) [15:42:51] "yet another false report from mr. sullivan"[15:43:20] the d.dns.br and ns-ext queries were ISC's attempt to include ccTLD traffic to DITL [15:43:49] we secondary a small collection of them, would love to have more :)[15:44:22] peter: you cctld whore.... wait... I used to do that too ;)[15:44:39] ok... we will push politics on .cl /again/ :-P [15:45:13] nic.cl are OARC members now, perhaps that will help [15:45:37] sure... that will be the force argument now ;-) [15:45:50] I wouldn't put it that way....but whatever works... ;) [15:45:52] actually we already have .CL traces to run a HITL analysis :) [15:46:15] several 6-hour traces, used for a different purpose [15:46:54] How easy is it to extend edns0?[15:47:27] FYI I think the plan for next DITL is end of jan 2008[15:47:28] specifically, NS records in the delegation set, not in the apex set [15:47:39] lixia zhang has presented on this a couple of times [15:48:22] my understanding is that EDNS0 has some flags that could still be set to do things, but if you want to do more things, then it becomes EDNS1 [15:48:49] k. [15:49:14] the definition of EDNS includes a field with the version number, the current is 0 [15:50:56] http://bert.secret-wg.org/Root/index.html [15:51:26] I don't think I have the right to sign the root... can I just kind of initial it right now?[15:51:26] hehe [15:51:37] end of presentation (qr=0)[15:51:59] qtype=any [15:52:24] peter losher: about as112, we do get a lot of irate phone calls from people who don't understand their intrusion detection systems; 5 minutes per call (patient) [15:52:36] I took calls which were far longer than that [15:52:40] several of which I had to hang up on :-) [15:52:52] jabley: your call manner is obviously lacking. [15:52:58] www.as112.net for website. [15:53:27] there are lots of AAAA records already in the root zone [15:53:30] well, more than zero anyway [15:53:41] I can point to at least one [15:54:21] its a *censored* nightmare if your server is mentioned by multiple cctlds (to get a AAAA record) [15:55:09] https://ns.iana.org/dnssec/root.zone.signed[15:55:14] http://www.icann.org/committees/security/sac018.pdf [15:55:23] bruce: only if the people at iana notice that your server is used by multiple cctlds [15:55:45] ns-ext.isc.org got AAAA glue with a single request from one ccTLD, iirc [15:55:57] jabley: *rude words* [15:56:07] damn australians [15:56:10] jabley: iana noticed cus we had ~90 [15:56:18] jabley: fish and chips... say it ;) [15:58:05] jabley, they usually do :) [15:58:28] and it's only a nightmare if your admin and/or tech contacts are unresponsive [16:02:29] anyone in *both* physical and groupchat rooms running Adium on MacOS who could help DePaul webcast guy with jabber config ? [16:02:41] Yeah [16:11:58] Is the audio on the QT feed low for anyone else/ [16:12:08] for those listening at home, they're testing it now. [16:12:14] ah, ok [16:12:17] Thanks. [16:12:17] heh [16:12:29] I can hear it if I crank my speakers all the way up [16:12:40] I'm just afraid of what will happen if I forget to turn them down :) [16:12:47] Aruuuuuuga [16:13:12] heh, exactly [16:13:16] Hey Jason [16:13:22] Long time no see Sir [16:13:53] yeah, I've been keeping a low profile for a while, doing the daddy thing and some local consulting gigs [16:14:20] daddy thing? Congrats. [16:14:23] my daughter and I just got back from music class + whole foods run, it's one of her favorite combos :) [16:14:27] Fun job. [16:14:42] yeah, I have a 2 year old, wicked smart, keeps me on my toes [16:16:05] doug: so now you're hearing 'i won't!' instead of 'icann' ;) [16:16:11] d'oh[16:16:40] doug/null: volume on audio stream should be higher, s.[16:16:56] ok, thanks for the warning [16:17:08] I can't hear anything, and I see a black splash screen/ [16:17:09] ? [16:17:22] sounds like people talking away from the mike during a break [16:17:23] no presenter at the moment. [16:17:51] resuming in a few minutes [16:20:04] wow [16:20:58] loud?[16:21:20] keith is starting now. [16:21:23] whoever blew into that mike took a year off my life, but now that I have the volume adjusted it's good :) [16:21:32] it was pretty loud here, too [16:21:37] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Andrews-BIND-Debugging.pdf [16:21:46] Mark Andrews with 'BIND-USERS and Other Debugging Experiences' [16:22:02] oh.. that's a 404[16:22:05] keith? [16:22:09] lowercase "d" [16:22:16] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Andrews-BIND-debugging.pdf [16:22:25] thanks [16:22:29] Keith just fixed the link a couple of minutes ago [16:28:15] errr, SA is not south africa[16:28:40] minor detail :)[16:29:00] Whatever it is, it is clearly borken. [16:29:14] yeah, it's saudi arabia [16:29:27] ZA is south africa, they're usually in pretty good shape [16:29:34] Zouth America [16:30:53] Saudi Arabia.... probably got a chap named Lawrence running .sa[16:32:07] the current DNSKEYs for vix.com seem to match those for Mark's example.com[16:32:20] d'oh [16:34:26] It's surely a coincidence.[16:34:42] no doubt. [16:34:52] convenient DNSKEY to include in the example.[16:35:10] Sorry 'bout that, been a long week - this and JohnD links fixed, Graff presentations links fixed & updated [16:35:32] ZA = Zuid Afrika, SA = Saudia Arabia [16:35:40] Saudi even [16:35:45] Yep, they are. thanks Keith. [16:35:52] the south arabian example? :) [16:36:15] brb [16:38:10] I hear the BIND Company is engaged in international conspiracies involving the Saudi royal family...[16:38:18] refusing the load the zone inspires education. [16:38:22] Look in the paper, we ARE the IETF. [16:38:33] and we're hippies [16:38:33] sometimes refusing to load the zone inspires....lawsuits [16:38:50] (today's chicago tribune, p1 and p25) [16:40:05] I'm about ready to hit send on an email to 77 million .com and .net domain holders about this issue... [16:40:33] The subject lines is "New rule from the BIND Company"... [16:41:03] Hmmm, it's taking a long time to send... [16:41:10] heh [16:41:20] The Onion once posted a picture for SCA Takes Russia! It was good. [16:41:51] Is this an action to create a BCP thru DNSOP - should we ask the WG chair? :)[16:43:42] would the token ICANN board member(s) in the room please stand up? [16:43:50] no [16:44:59] ok, everyone in line now [16:46:13] "glueless" sounds a lot like "clueless"[16:47:18] Someone please bring up Hitler so we can stop this discussion...[16:47:32] lol [16:47:54] Hilter Would Have Had Proper Delegations, Ja! [16:49:22] I think I'm back in 1995 when Mark and I debated it.... [16:49:55] that paragraph in 1034 should have been written with SHOULDs instead of shoulds. [16:50:21] and referenced 2119 to explain the difference? [16:50:26] I think 2119 language wasn't invented when 1034 was written ;-) [16:50:29] sam beat me to it [16:50:51] yes, it should have future-proofed itself ;) [16:51:07] (theres a few rfcs from that time that used 2119-esq language) [16:51:46] like most good ideas, it existed before it was documented [16:54:01] congrats to David Blacka on two RFCs published today.[16:54:13] and to roy [16:54:23] and Mark K [16:55:18] he's not kidding about the limits on the documentation....it's frightening [16:55:54] they had to spend that patent revenue somewhere..... [16:55:57] Is anyone working on an open source documentation of how to do this? [16:56:08] Or even example-pkcs11.c? [16:56:36] another round of drinks seemed better at the time than a tech-writer.[16:59:07] http://mail.shinkuro.com:8100/Lists/dnssec-deployment/Message/830.html?Language= points to some actual implementation experience. There's a pointer to source there I think. I don't see Richard i nthe jabber room but he's i nthe physical room.[17:00:02] and as John is about to say, ISC is working on this (implementation and documentation) [17:00:17] *clap clap clap clap clap* [17:00:19] And as he said, with NLnet Labs [17:00:32] all the important guys :) [17:00:39] hehe [17:00:42] cool [17:02:11] Many times the problem was that the openssl interface greatly interefered with the rate at which you could feed the device. That appears to have changed in the last few years? [17:03:07] And hope the hardware vendor never, ever goes out of business.[17:04:15] key and signing policy presentation [17:04:34] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Dickinson-KASP.pdf [17:04:49] Note: John mentioned using a Sun T2000. He was not referring to the T1000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-1000). Please do not try to use a killer android as an HSM--it is very dangerous![17:05:22] Matt; but at least the pain would be briefer. [17:05:37] would make key rollover somewhat problematic [17:05:44] but also irrelevant [17:06:26] nah, it'll be fine until it has to sign sarah.connor.com [17:07:25] Seems like http://mitglied.lycos.de/pflegerjuergen/download/SDNSS.pdf looks promising ..[17:07:39] Or http://gov.ca.gov/ [17:07:41] obviously he's a BIND Company crony[17:11:59] questions for John ? [17:16:47] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Richardson-DNSSEC-ipam.pdf [17:30:15] Children of the Cron T-Shirt The cron daemon pumps them out with a calculated malicious intent, children of unspeakable horror. These jobs wander freely through the circuits of your computer, carrying out the evil plan of their master, crond. Despair, my brave administrator... there is no escape from the Children of the Cron! http://www.jinx.com/men/shirts/geek/children_of_the_cron.html [17:30:31] (wrt the vixie-cronies t-shirt idea) [17:30:51] Shouldn't that be vixie-chronies?[17:30:53] ;> [17:31:16] suz is laughing. this is bad.[17:31:17] I meant, cornies. [17:31:20] ;> [17:32:13] vixie-cornie actually makes more sense if you think about it [17:32:17] psst, named.... here, have some records. [17:32:42] I like this one better: http://www.jinx.com/men/shirts/video_games/chown_r_us_base.html [17:34:32] all that and dlv support too[17:34:50] ???: what do you do about key-signing rollover? [17:35:06] trustupdate-timers. Didn't you get the memo? [17:36:09] random web posting events.... 1st Post! [17:36:29] new uses for twitter [17:40:04] bind 9 statistics [17:40:26] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Graff-BIND9-stats.pdf[17:40:45] ISC has an invisibility cloak for Graff? [17:41:03] for who? this is a remote talk isn't it?[17:41:04] Low-budget... they just keep him in a small room. [17:41:04] ;) [17:41:20] they should let him out more [17:41:23] he's a good speaker [17:41:58] jabley: tell him that, please. :) [17:42:07] I did, last week :-) [17:42:16] I've been repeating it to him like a mantra since Sunday [17:42:18] he's in the chat room, he can read it when he comes back. [17:43:05] what's the timeline for adding the e-mail client to named? [17:43:25] ``6 months'' [17:43:31] same as dnssec ;) [17:44:54] *keith has set the topic to: DNS Operations Social at http://www.planet99.com/chicago/restaurants/16599.html [17:47:19] http://public.oarci.net/files/dnsops-2007/Graff-BIND9-cache.pdf [17:47:49] did anyone head over there? hopefully it won't be packed [17:48:34] Not that I know [17:49:08] those of us that saw Michael talk about these on Sunday could head over... but I'm afraid of what he'll think if we all get up and leave at the same time. :) [17:49:21] he can read it in the logs.... [17:49:41] kind of disheartening for a speaker when people start getting up to leave [17:49:46] especially if he's last in the day [17:50:32] it only another 10 mins till we're done [17:51:06] ``are we done yet?''[17:52:13] "are we there yet Daddy?"[17:53:25] I love it when you call me da.... wait, wrong room [17:55:29] Our speakers have been good enough to keep to their slots - deserves patience, and then beer ! [17:56:18] michael is being heckled by canadians [17:57:13] Actually people are interacting in spite of being really tired, I think it's a compliment to him that i hope he reads when he signs back in. [17:57:44] WE LOVE YOU MICHAEL [17:58:18] Indeed - good response both here and in BIND Forum [17:58:36] when 9.5.0 goes gold, will you refer to the new stats interface as Graff Graphs? [17:58:47] I will [17:58:48] lol [17:59:11] http://localhost:5353/graff/ [17:59:25] heh. [18:03:08] woo! Thanks Michael![18:03:41] end of presentation. [18:03:51] remote people not invited to dinner ;) [18:04:00] bleh [18:07:28] We're done for today ! Thanks everyone and don't drink *too* much beer before tomorrow's session [18:07:57] *** Disconnected.